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	<title>Comments on: Diagnosis, autism and untidy boxes and THAT ABC interview.</title>
	<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/</link>
	<description>Ever the arty Autie</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Autism and competition; she just won&#8217;t compete! &#124; Donna Williams&#8217; Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-21542</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism and competition; she just won&#8217;t compete! &#124; Donna Williams&#8217; Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-21542</guid>
		<description>[...] I have little natural desire to compete. I will defend myself&#8230; something bullies, abusers, stalkers and trolls have taught me over many years. But beyond the moment, it&#8217;s as if they evaporate. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I have little natural desire to compete. I will defend myself&#8230; something bullies, abusers, stalkers and trolls have taught me over many years. But beyond the moment, it&#8217;s as if they evaporate. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Kathi</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18938</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18938</guid>
		<description>Donna,
I'm very tired right now and having a hard time thinking straight, but just had to write! Besides having been interested in Autism for a long time, I'm now working as a personal aide with an Autistic 19-yr.-old in a work experience setting. I am in the middle of reading "Nobody Nowhere" right now and just happened to end up here on your site after looking at random videos on YouTube. I can't tell you how much your book has helped me to understand "my kid". My biggest regret is that it took me so long to find out about you! Just reading the above exchange between you and Amanda has been overwhelmingly illuminating! I thank you for sharing your unique insight and can't wait to read more!
In the past few months, it has seemed like he's been trying to draw me into "his world": While I may never really be able to get inside, I feel as if you've at least helped me to peek into the windows of his mind. I think what's helped the most is that I've learned that it would be far better to try to reach him in "his world", than to try to force him to fit into "the world". 
Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna,<br />
I&#8217;m very tired right now and having a hard time thinking straight, but just had to write! Besides having been interested in Autism for a long time, I&#8217;m now working as a personal aide with an Autistic 19-yr.-old in a work experience setting. I am in the middle of reading &#8220;Nobody Nowhere&#8221; right now and just happened to end up here on your site after looking at random videos on YouTube. I can&#8217;t tell you how much your book has helped me to understand &#8220;my kid&#8221;. My biggest regret is that it took me so long to find out about you! Just reading the above exchange between you and Amanda has been overwhelmingly illuminating! I thank you for sharing your unique insight and can&#8217;t wait to read more!<br />
In the past few months, it has seemed like he&#8217;s been trying to draw me into &#8220;his world&#8221;: While I may never really be able to get inside, I feel as if you&#8217;ve at least helped me to peek into the windows of his mind. I think what&#8217;s helped the most is that I&#8217;ve learned that it would be far better to try to reach him in &#8220;his world&#8221;, than to try to force him to fit into &#8220;the world&#8221;.<br />
Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: donna</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18901</link>
		<dc:creator>donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18901</guid>
		<description>and this really says something else....
about relative emotional intelligence or sensing of different auties
and about which have autism AND emotional disturbance
and the tendency the last 10-20 years is that once a person is diagnosed with autism
that any prior diagnosis of being emotionally disturbed
is invalidated
but on reflection I'm certain I fitted both.
it's about society's struggle with a holistic perspective
a a 'phenomenological' thing, a perspective thing, a mindset thing, perhaps a 'modern Western' thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and this really says something else&#8230;.<br />
about relative emotional intelligence or sensing of different auties<br />
and about which have autism AND emotional disturbance<br />
and the tendency the last 10-20 years is that once a person is diagnosed with autism<br />
that any prior diagnosis of being emotionally disturbed<br />
is invalidated<br />
but on reflection I&#8217;m certain I fitted both.<br />
it&#8217;s about society&#8217;s struggle with a holistic perspective<br />
a a &#8216;phenomenological&#8217; thing, a perspective thing, a mindset thing, perhaps a &#8216;modern Western&#8217; thing.</p>
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		<title>By: donna</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18900</link>
		<dc:creator>donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18900</guid>
		<description>I thought that was a super cool observation.  Then I saw who wrote it and thought, no wonder!
you are truly one of the most insightful writers about autism sociology.

yes, I worked with over 600 people on the spectrum in over a decade as an autistic autism consultant.
Most of those were kids, and most in special needs schools
and I'd say maybe 1/4 of all those I was consulted for, 
were reported as strikingly different in their functioning at home versus at school
and exactly as you say sometimes 'high' functioning at home
and 'low' at school
or vice versa.
Some also varied between parents, being one type of autie with one parent 
and another with the other parent.
and people don't study this because it seriously challenges so many existing 'respected' theories and assumptions.
but it also questions whether the semblance of 'functioning' is where one is truly developmentally/cognitively/linguistically at, or where scripting and mirroring come in, where people use facades to cover their real levels, where motivation or learned dependency come in....
and that makes THESE auties so dynamic, so much more complex than the 2D outlines of them
its also a funding thing
many times I found the kids reports were made emphasising their disabilities
in order to secure more support and funding
and then the school would stand by the report, expect only within the realms of it
and often the child could function way outside the report
under particular social emotional circumstances
and yet be totally limited under others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought that was a super cool observation.  Then I saw who wrote it and thought, no wonder!<br />
you are truly one of the most insightful writers about autism sociology.</p>
<p>yes, I worked with over 600 people on the spectrum in over a decade as an autistic autism consultant.<br />
Most of those were kids, and most in special needs schools<br />
and I&#8217;d say maybe 1/4 of all those I was consulted for,<br />
were reported as strikingly different in their functioning at home versus at school<br />
and exactly as you say sometimes &#8216;high&#8217; functioning at home<br />
and &#8216;low&#8217; at school<br />
or vice versa.<br />
Some also varied between parents, being one type of autie with one parent<br />
and another with the other parent.<br />
and people don&#8217;t study this because it seriously challenges so many existing &#8216;respected&#8217; theories and assumptions.<br />
but it also questions whether the semblance of &#8216;functioning&#8217; is where one is truly developmentally/cognitively/linguistically at, or where scripting and mirroring come in, where people use facades to cover their real levels, where motivation or learned dependency come in&#8230;.<br />
and that makes THESE auties so dynamic, so much more complex than the 2D outlines of them<br />
its also a funding thing<br />
many times I found the kids reports were made emphasising their disabilities<br />
in order to secure more support and funding<br />
and then the school would stand by the report, expect only within the realms of it<br />
and often the child could function way outside the report<br />
under particular social emotional circumstances<br />
and yet be totally limited under others.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18896</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18896</guid>
		<description>Yes, especially when autistic people are &lt;em&gt;known&lt;/em&gt; for having different ability-sets in different situations.  

Known for that, even at the time, among people who actually &lt;em&gt;studied&lt;/em&gt; autism enough, but not enough people even did, or do.  I've seen references to it dating back to the seventies or eighties at least, if not earlier.  One very common one is for autistic people to behave one way around family, another way at school, and still another way in clinical examinations -- and interestingly enough that one can go either way (with any one of those seeming the "most able" and "least able" in different people).

Of course, one thing I've noticed, is that even among those who study autism, they seem to draw some very odd conclusions about what they do see.  It's like they see what's there, but they don't understand it, so they throw half of what they see out of their heads entirely, and then make up strange theories about the rest.  And the strange theories are most of what pass for knowledge and expertise.  Then another person comes along, and builds theories on top of the old theories, calling the old theories 'facts' even if they're totally off the mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, especially when autistic people are <em>known</em> for having different ability-sets in different situations.  </p>
<p>Known for that, even at the time, among people who actually <em>studied</em> autism enough, but not enough people even did, or do.  I&#8217;ve seen references to it dating back to the seventies or eighties at least, if not earlier.  One very common one is for autistic people to behave one way around family, another way at school, and still another way in clinical examinations &#8212; and interestingly enough that one can go either way (with any one of those seeming the &#8220;most able&#8221; and &#8220;least able&#8221; in different people).</p>
<p>Of course, one thing I&#8217;ve noticed, is that even among those who study autism, they seem to draw some very odd conclusions about what they do see.  It&#8217;s like they see what&#8217;s there, but they don&#8217;t understand it, so they throw half of what they see out of their heads entirely, and then make up strange theories about the rest.  And the strange theories are most of what pass for knowledge and expertise.  Then another person comes along, and builds theories on top of the old theories, calling the old theories &#8216;facts&#8217; even if they&#8217;re totally off the mark.</p>
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		<title>By: donna</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18802</link>
		<dc:creator>donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18802</guid>
		<description>Yes, I know
but what seems to bother the main 2 interviewees (the lecturer and teaching course student who featured negatively in NN and SS) is that I fail to present in the SAME autistic style in ALL situations.  

So in their reasoning, I should present the same when involved with those who have studied the same topic I had for 4 years (sociology) as when involved with an interviewer I'd never met, in a building and place and structure I'd never encountered, on a topic I'd never spoken verbally on and which was far more highly personal that sociology scripts I'd had 4 years and scanned volumes of books to accumulate).  

Or sitting watching a teacher present about how to read children's stories to children, should bring out exactly the same responses as a room of moving, touching dancing bodies with faces and hands moving at me and past   me at a relentless pace.

So the interview is actually an historical artifact, a representation of the typical ignorance about autism present of 1996.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I know<br />
but what seems to bother the main 2 interviewees (the lecturer and teaching course student who featured negatively in NN and SS) is that I fail to present in the SAME autistic style in ALL situations.  </p>
<p>So in their reasoning, I should present the same when involved with those who have studied the same topic I had for 4 years (sociology) as when involved with an interviewer I&#8217;d never met, in a building and place and structure I&#8217;d never encountered, on a topic I&#8217;d never spoken verbally on and which was far more highly personal that sociology scripts I&#8217;d had 4 years and scanned volumes of books to accumulate).  </p>
<p>Or sitting watching a teacher present about how to read children&#8217;s stories to children, should bring out exactly the same responses as a room of moving, touching dancing bodies with faces and hands moving at me and past   me at a relentless pace.</p>
<p>So the interview is actually an historical artifact, a representation of the typical ignorance about autism present of 1996.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18796</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18796</guid>
		<description>I noticed in the interview a long time ago, that the things they were claiming were evidence of not being autistic, are common traits in autistic people.

Sometimes it literally looked like they were saying, "Oh, look at all her bad social skills/comprehension problems/etc, they prove she's not autistic."

Which is really strange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed in the interview a long time ago, that the things they were claiming were evidence of not being autistic, are common traits in autistic people.</p>
<p>Sometimes it literally looked like they were saying, &#8220;Oh, look at all her bad social skills/comprehension problems/etc, they prove she&#8217;s not autistic.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which is really strange.</p>
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		<title>By: donna</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18784</link>
		<dc:creator>donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18784</guid>
		<description>Yes one of the main things raised by the student in my teaching year (who featured in Somebody Somewhere quitenegatively but failed to mention this rather significant fact at all) was how she noted that I coped in the once a week 1 hr English class she was in with me (she actually wasn't in my main class with me, there were two classes and she was in the other one) but struggled in a class involving bush dancing.  Bush dancing involves constant touch with different partners and having to visually perceive whole bodies in order not to overload and freak.  My visual processng is slow and the faster things come at me the more cohesive.  The lecturer understood this but the student interviewed chose to seize on that as proof that I wasn't as autistic in a class about children's story books as in the dance class.  

The same criticism was leveled by the fellow student who'd once had a coffee with me.  Well, after 4 years of studying Sociology, and a year in the classroom of this acquaintance, I had plenty of Sociology scripting to play out  and was already accustomed enough to his movements and speech patterns to not be inhibted.  But he refers to me being hypomanic, which was common when overstimulated and happens in many socially phobic people.  But he has compared this with me really struggling with acute exposure anxiety with a journalist asking me personal questions about my inner world and child abuse, where clearly I was struggling to process her language and dare to use my own.

Then the lecturer, Eipper, really seizes on all this because in the 10 x 30 min office appointments I was obliged to have alone with him in his office, I was flighty, sometimes giggly, often diverting from one tangent to another in quick succession to avoid his interest in me, which is spelt out a litle obviously in Nobody Nowhere and hence went down like a lead balloon with him.  Anyway, the fact I was different with this FEMALE journalist in an interview than when obliged by my course criteria to be alone with him in his office or fail my honours year (it was a condition one must spend 10 x 30 min appointments with one's thesis supervisor) anyway, you can see the situation.

But who wants to hear any of that, not when one can imagine a juicy controversy and the journalist refers to the interviewees as 'bravely speaking out'.  What on earth were their imagined sanctions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes one of the main things raised by the student in my teaching year (who featured in Somebody Somewhere quitenegatively but failed to mention this rather significant fact at all) was how she noted that I coped in the once a week 1 hr English class she was in with me (she actually wasn&#8217;t in my main class with me, there were two classes and she was in the other one) but struggled in a class involving bush dancing.  Bush dancing involves constant touch with different partners and having to visually perceive whole bodies in order not to overload and freak.  My visual processng is slow and the faster things come at me the more cohesive.  The lecturer understood this but the student interviewed chose to seize on that as proof that I wasn&#8217;t as autistic in a class about children&#8217;s story books as in the dance class.  </p>
<p>The same criticism was leveled by the fellow student who&#8217;d once had a coffee with me.  Well, after 4 years of studying Sociology, and a year in the classroom of this acquaintance, I had plenty of Sociology scripting to play out  and was already accustomed enough to his movements and speech patterns to not be inhibted.  But he refers to me being hypomanic, which was common when overstimulated and happens in many socially phobic people.  But he has compared this with me really struggling with acute exposure anxiety with a journalist asking me personal questions about my inner world and child abuse, where clearly I was struggling to process her language and dare to use my own.</p>
<p>Then the lecturer, Eipper, really seizes on all this because in the 10 x 30 min office appointments I was obliged to have alone with him in his office, I was flighty, sometimes giggly, often diverting from one tangent to another in quick succession to avoid his interest in me, which is spelt out a litle obviously in Nobody Nowhere and hence went down like a lead balloon with him.  Anyway, the fact I was different with this FEMALE journalist in an interview than when obliged by my course criteria to be alone with him in his office or fail my honours year (it was a condition one must spend 10 x 30 min appointments with one&#8217;s thesis supervisor) anyway, you can see the situation.</p>
<p>But who wants to hear any of that, not when one can imagine a juicy controversy and the journalist refers to the interviewees as &#8216;bravely speaking out&#8217;.  What on earth were their imagined sanctions?</p>
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		<title>By: Adrianna Hey</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18781</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrianna Hey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18781</guid>
		<description>Good thing I never listen to ABC. All the major news sources in America are propaganda machines.

Reminds me of a lot of people who see one little boy who cannot speak, or make eye contact, and who bangs his head and say I, an 18-year-old, or other Aspies, cannot possibly be autistic.

No research or further experience needed. 

That's another thing people don't realize. People tend not to maintain the same symptoms for the same severity forever. Most attention paid to autism is paid on young children, but very little on other ages, and I think this is part of the confusion for people who do not have much experience with anyone with autism.

Pain in the ass. People need to stray from their little boxes very badly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thing I never listen to ABC. All the major news sources in America are propaganda machines.</p>
<p>Reminds me of a lot of people who see one little boy who cannot speak, or make eye contact, and who bangs his head and say I, an 18-year-old, or other Aspies, cannot possibly be autistic.</p>
<p>No research or further experience needed. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s another thing people don&#8217;t realize. People tend not to maintain the same symptoms for the same severity forever. Most attention paid to autism is paid on young children, but very little on other ages, and I think this is part of the confusion for people who do not have much experience with anyone with autism.</p>
<p>Pain in the ass. People need to stray from their little boxes very badly.</p>
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		<title>By: donna</title>
		<link>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18776</link>
		<dc:creator>donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.donnawilliams.net/2008/03/17/diagnosis-autism-and-a-untidy-boxes/#comment-18776</guid>
		<description>For those zealously following the so called 'controversial' interview, here's some interesting and verifiable facts regarding reliability of the ABC interview.

a) that the interviewer, Kathy Golan, never met me 
b) that the 'expert', Dr Volkmar ,had never met me 
c) that Dr Bartak who diagnosed me had the same number of years experience with autism as Dr Volkmar 
d) that the lecturer, Chris Eipper interviewed was a sociologist with no qualifications in child development or autism 
e) that Ms. Nan Caterina once featured in the interview but has been edited out (see archived editions) because she in fact had never been my teacher. 
f) that Marcia Devlin, the student featured who claimed to have been in my class all year had in fact been in the other of the two classes that year and the only shared class time with her was a 1 hr a week English class where the two groups joined. 
g) that both Chris Eipper and Marcia Devlin feature negatively in the books Nobody Nowhere and Somebody Somewhere and they have not mentioned this at all in the interview. 
h) That Lawrie Bartak was not actually present in the Kathy Golan interview and that the recording of him featured there is in fact edited in from a different ABC interview with another journalist some years before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those zealously following the so called &#8216;controversial&#8217; interview, here&#8217;s some interesting and verifiable facts regarding reliability of the ABC interview.</p>
<p>a) that the interviewer, Kathy Golan, never met me<br />
b) that the &#8216;expert&#8217;, Dr Volkmar ,had never met me<br />
c) that Dr Bartak who diagnosed me had the same number of years experience with autism as Dr Volkmar<br />
d) that the lecturer, Chris Eipper interviewed was a sociologist with no qualifications in child development or autism<br />
e) that Ms. Nan Caterina once featured in the interview but has been edited out (see archived editions) because she in fact had never been my teacher.<br />
f) that Marcia Devlin, the student featured who claimed to have been in my class all year had in fact been in the other of the two classes that year and the only shared class time with her was a 1 hr a week English class where the two groups joined.<br />
g) that both Chris Eipper and Marcia Devlin feature negatively in the books Nobody Nowhere and Somebody Somewhere and they have not mentioned this at all in the interview.<br />
h) That Lawrie Bartak was not actually present in the Kathy Golan interview and that the recording of him featured there is in fact edited in from a different ABC interview with another journalist some years before.</p>
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